A few people are asking me why I have chosen Thundersky Lithiums over conventional lead-acid deep cycle batteries. Firstly, lithium phosphates are lighter than deep-cycles, and Lithium polymers are even lighter again, approximately half the weight of the phosphates, making them useful for a variety of applications other than just electric vehicles, such as electric helicopters for example (yes, these are being developed as fully-electric one and two-person carriers).
45 x 3.2v Thunderskys lined up in series to make 144v.
Cycle Life
Another important reason is cycle life. Lithium phosphates have a much longer cycle life than lead acids. They’re more efficient too, delivering most of their amp-hour capacity at a high discharge rate. You can only get around half the delivery from lead acid batteries which typically exhibits a Peukert’s Law characteristic where discharging at a higher rate removes more power from the battery than basically calculated. For example, a 200 amp-hour battery at 40Ah rating may provide 10 amps for 40 hours but cannot supply 20 amps for 20 hours, as the time remaining would essentially result in less than the expected 20 hours (oh, note that lead acids are generally based on a 20Ah rate).
There’s lots of stuff on the net about Peukert’s law so I’ll save you getting bogged down here. Suffice to say that the exponent of this law varies for different batteries; a typical deep cycle Peukert exponent is 1.3. Thundersky has stated less than 1.08.
When looked after, Lithiums in my Starion should last for years….
Lithium phosphates are more sensitive than lead acids and require careful charging and discharging. This is not to say you can’t put a BMS on a pack of lead acid traction batteries – I’m sure they would benefit too – but for lithium phosphates they are essential, as you can see below.
Battery Balancing Time
Last weekend we were balancing our batteries prior to installation, lining them up and connecting in series for charging with my new Zivan. The voltages checked out okay; a couple of batteries came in around 3.6 volts and the rest close to 4.2 volts. Balance resistors are used to protect some batteries. Why is this so? Simply because not every battery that is manufactured is 100% identical, due to varying production tolerances, uneven temperature characteristics and so on.
Connecting my Thunderskys, and tightening to 20 Newtons.
Over time some batteries can become stressed and fail before their expected time. A cell could become charged before the rest are charged and then it is overcharged, shortening its life. Batteries are balanced when all cells in the traction pack have the same matched voltage per cell when fully charged or discharged.
And with battery management, setting the high and low charge limits is important – the idea is the make sure that when the lithium phosphates are charging, they are not over charged, and lithiums also don’t like to go flat either, as their integrity can literally fall apart. For my Thunderskys, we need to keep them above 3.2 volts.
Differences of Opinion
There’s always contention on the best life-enduring method for lithiums, whether to keep them fully charged or partially charged and if rapid charging is ultimately more damaging. General consensus is to charge more frequently and leave as partial, albeit near ‘full’ charging, more often.
When a typical laptop lithium ion battery gets old, resistance inside builds over time due to oxidation, depending on the type of battery compound inside (be it cobalt (LiCoO2), manganese (LiMn2O4) etc). The lithiums I have, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4 or LFP for short) are less volatile, have a greater power density and are not susceptible to overheating (though efficiency may be impeded if they do get hot).
Breakin’ In Is Not So Hard to Do
There has also been discussion amongst EVers about how new LFPs should be treated, that is, ‘broken in’ to a charging regime. Some have mentioned that Thunderskies can fail prematurely if they are discharged below 35% too early.
Breaking in one’s batteries is like ‘breaking in a new car’, i.e., driving carefully for a short while and not thrashing the engine. In the lithium battery case, it has been suggested to not fully deep cycle past 30 initial charging cycles to below the suggested 35% capacity. Ultimately I plan not to fully deep cycle them too often anyway, where possible, to prolong life.

{ 3 comments… read them below or add one }
until now, Tsky has had a monopoly on the large Ah cells.
For those looking for large cells, check out my site.
the 55Ah can be put together with a 6C max rate peak.
Or 120Ah as needed at 3C. A more stable capacity and higher discharge rate makes for a better cell.
I will be posting lab test results on Tsky cells soon
located in USA
Hi Martin, I’m using Australian-made BMS modules from BEV (Blade Electric Vehicles), http://www.bev.com.au. They’re quite advanced with an on-board chip that can be programmed into the Thundersky’s hi/lo charge tolerance window. Charge settings vary between the various battery types so it’s important to match the BMS settings to your battery. It also comes with a master shunt control box. The modules are pretty good, the control box could do with a little refinement and probably be more feature-rich. Anyway, I don’t have the invoice at hand; I recall around $1650Australian (which was at the time about $1600US) – that’s roughly $30 each module x 45 batteries plus around $300 for the control box. If you are using a smaller rated pack for your Vespa (which I assume you are), you could probably get away with TS-90s which I think are cheaper and your battery could be well within their top adjustable voltage range (around 3.8volts – but don’t quote me, not sure of the topmost voltage on the TS-90s without wading thru my specs). They’re very friendly people; their details are, http://www.ev-power.com.au/-Thundersky-Battery-Balancing-System-.html
Hope this helps, Carmel
Hello Carmel!
I have seen your very interesting conversion videos on Youtube. Most interesting for me is the battery technology because I am planning to convert a Vespa scooter. Could you please inform me, what BMS you were using for your Thundersky batteries and how much they were costing.
Greetings from Austria
Martin